Sims A Lion (Updated)

This isn't bad. But I'm curious what the Hawks will get to replace these guys whø are leaving. Does anyone else notice that all the media-friendly guys, the ones who loved the microphone the most, are leaving...

Sims
Deon Grant
Tapp
Burleson

All super-nice guys. Too bad, but this team does need an edge!

early 5th rd pick huh.. let's hope our FO is good at coaching/scouting because so far I'm pretty unimpressed with their ability to trade/negotiate

hmmm, I wish they would have held out a little longer if Philly was actually interested in Sims. Now that they have the extra 2nd I would have liked to see them get in a bidding war with Detroit and we might have gotten better value.

Hojo, your kidding right? Scouting is Pete Caroll's middle name!!! You gotta trust. Now trade/negotiate is a different story. Papahawk, I agree. Withe those players gone so is our swagger.

I guess the FO sees this as a straight across swap if Gibbs is allowed to pick his own OG's that fit his mold. I'm okay with it as long as whom ever we pick up can contribute right away.

I dont think our swagger is gone, we have some young guys who havent gotten a chance to show their swagger. And sims wasnt worth much more then a 5th, honestly.

Good luck Rob Sims, you improved mightily last year!

I just hope that Gibbs and Carroll are much better at finding mid-late round talent that fits thier scheme than Ruskell was.

I notice they havent cut Wrotto or Gibson or Vallos yet. While they might not be counting on them to start, they must see these guys as good enough to compete through camp for depth spots.

I sure wish we still had our high second round pick to spend on a WR. IMO, we need two young WR's with size far more than another RB. Im ok with Rankin/Forsett/Jones and perhaps a later round RB with size and speed. I hope we get Blount or a small college guy with huge upside. No more mediocre players.

Hawk-A

There's a big difference between recruiting and coaching/scouting.. no doubt Pistol Pete is one of the nation's top recruiters of high school talent.

I'll stay optimistic though, Schneider does have a good track record in draft.

A high 5th....... Not too shabby for an average guard that was injured too much. Now if they can trade down a few spots at either 6 or 14 and re-claim that lost 3rd rounder we will be set for a killer draft!!!!!

I agree with you! I could see #14 being traded now for more picks for sure. After that happens a trade for Marshall is going to happen.

Sims
Deon Grant
Tapp
Burleson
Redding

That's 5 starters. With strong talk of getting rid of several more (Kearney, Branch, Lucas, Spencer)
What have we picked up? A backup QB, back up tight end, and some special teamers. You can argue about the quality of those guys but who exactly is going to replace them? The crappy guys back up? The draft class? Are we planning on having the entire draft class be starters?
Trying to remain positive but logic is slappin' me up side the head.

I think you are seeing the rebuilding of the Hawks through the draft and through new young players. You make some great points that we won't be able to see the fruit of until the season starts.

Pick #133 has been in the 4th round the past 5 drafts. Sims was also drafted #128 in 2006, so it seems like a straight up trade to me.

thank you for pointing that out Sammy...came here to do so!

Comeon you guys!

Does anyone remember that a lot of times over the last couple of years we had to use our backups and were surprised to see that they seemed to play as well as the starters or in some instances better? We had a team where the starters weren't very good and the backups weren't much different when they came in. Who have we gotten rid of that's going to go elsewhere and tear up the league?

I think PC took a good look and saw a team where the starters weren't any great shakes and the backups played just about as good or the starters didn't play his style of ball in Sims case. He saw that as an opportunity to get more draft picks and not lose much at all.

He hasn't touched our real talent like the linebackers, Trufant, Wilson, Mebane, Carlson, Forsett, etc. Just a few monthes ago, I was reading posts that said we had to get rid of Ruskell and let a whole bunch of underachievers go and totally re-build this team whatever the cost. I said at the time to be careful what you wish for. Now comes the reality of that philosophy. We are cleaning house and Pete is geiing rid of what he consideres dead wood, players who don't play his style of ball, or people that weren't going to buy into his program carte blanche. I remember him saying in the very first presser that the players would buy into what he's selling or they would be gone. Now I don't know what players have been saying after he took over but it sure seems as if some of the vocal leaders of the team are going out the door. Maybe they didn't fully buy into what was going down for some reason but Carroll is a coach who wants to be able to say jump and have everyone up in the air immediatrely and then asking the question how high?

Give Pete a ton of rope and lets see what he does with it. There always time to reel it back in later if it turns out he can't get it done. You guys wanted a new and different team not a re-worked Ruskell/Mora project. That's exactly what you're going to get for better or worse byt hey, how much worse could it get?

On Henderson, does anyone notice he went to High School in LA? Maybe he's another player Carroll recruited or at least knew previously. I imagine for the next three or four years, he's going to have some inside imformation of college guys and young players in general that will serve him well in re-building the Seahawks.

I'm a little disapointed too that he didn't get a better draft choice for Sims but the flip side of having a deep draft is that picks become much more valuable. The fact that many good players are available isn't lost on the other 31 GM's either and I'm sure they are being close fisted with their picks this year. Deals for veteran players with half their useful football life used up are going to be harder to make in a draft year like this one and you can probably downgrade any trade you make by a round and still find good players for replacements. Gibbs found good linemen for his system in the 5th, 6th, and 7th rounds previously (and consistently) so let's give the new guys some room to operate. I would imagine he's already got his eye on two or three players in the 5th who will be there and provide what he wants in terms of skill level and upside to replace Sims or they wouldn't have made the deal. The outcome of this isn't going to be known for years yet. The guy we pick as Sims replacement will have to be compared to what we gave up this year after 4 or 5 years to really know if it was a good deal or not so let's all just relax and enjoy the show.

Bill T-

That's Louisiana not Los Angeles. And in regards to the trade, maybe the FO valued Henderson higher than a 7th and that was just part of the deal in return for Sims. So Sims and a 7th for Henderson and a 5th. Might have gotten more for Sims if Henderson wasn't part of the dea.

I agree with most of what you are saying though and I will give the FO the benefit of the doubt. Both Carroll and Schneider are good talent evaluators and I'm excited to see what they do.

is it april 22nd yet??!!

Of the starters we've lost, the only one I see with any potential for "tearing up the league" is Tapp.

Otherwise I agree with the sentiment that the people who are fretting probably overvalued some of the players on last year's roster.

This is the first move we have made where we at least got close to even value (and I mean this in terms of present value at the very moment, not whether a guy winds up being successful down the road).

Your are too Optimistic for your own good! This is why we are NOT taken seriously as a sports town! We are too soft and want to give everyone a CHANCE! This is B.S – we should have kept Russkel on a tighter leash and we should not give PC and Co. 4 years to make us good again! I hope to god, he is not destroying the team on purpose so he can get the overall pick next year (locker)…….

As for the trade goes, well its okay to me… nothing too special about it.

I wish they would have held out a little longer if Philly was actually interested in Sims. Now that they have the extra 2nd I would have liked to see them get in a bidding war with Detroit and we might have gotten better value.

let's hope our FO is good at coaching/scouting because so far I'm pretty unimpressed with their ability to trade/negotiate

So we should have held out for a better deal? We left Philly cold when they would have given us more for Sims if we had just been patient and played hardball? We failed to let the bidding war develop between Detroit and Philly (let's throw in the Browns and Chicago too since the rumor is that they were also very interested).

Did you guys talk to the GM's of the Eagles, Lions, Browns, and Bears? Is that how you got all that inside information that points to Seattle being inept negotiators and not getting the best deals? Or are you just taking sports writers opinions and their reported rumors as fact. You say no, you didn't talk to those GM's? Well, Schneider did. He knows exactly how interested everyone was in Sims and how likely a bidding war would have developed or the likelyhood is that someone would have given more if we had just waited.

If you're going to be one of those sellers who sets their price and doesn't budge, you're going to be a football team with a pretty highly paid backup guard sitting on the bench who can't really play the position anyway if called upon (ZBS guard) and worse yet, you're not going to have a chance at getting a replacement with no ammunition.

Now Carroll may be new to the league after his long stint as a top college coach but Scheider was a current top GM candidate when hired. He knows his way around the NFL and I doubt he's being taken advantage of in every opne of these deals. After all, if you're going to trade for a Seattle player, you're trading for a player on a team that's won 9 games over the last two years and five of those were against the Rams and the Lions and two against the 49ers. Just how good a player are you getting from a team like that? Doesn't anyone but me see that it might be difficult selling your discarded players from a product like that?

Just once, I'd love to see someone who thinks that the Seahawks FO didn't do a good job of negotiating get a shot at being the one making the calls and coming up with that great deal they think should have been made. Let's see you overcome the fact that Seahawk players aren't really in high demand and that picks are hard to come by in a deep draft year. It would be interesting to see if you came away with some deals made and new players for the team or if you ended up re-signing the same old players because you refused to make deals that you thought weren't up to standard for the Seahawks and therefore ended up with the same old team again.

The point is that without intimate knowledge of what was said and the offers and counter offers that were made, your criticsm is as valid as any criticisms based on inuendo, rumor, and speculation but completely devoid of fact and any certain knowledge of what alternatives were really available. In other words, completely unreliable and without substance.

I'm sure you're frustrated by your percieved lack of neogotiating skills the new FO has shown but just how much do you think you're going to get for a guard who has been injured approximately half the time he's been in the league, starts for a team who hasn't won more than 9 games in two years and those against the worst teams in the league, has been flopped from the left to the right side and back again trying to find a place where he's effective, and is not considered a very good run blocker. Yes, he's got enough experience to start right away but you're buying untapped potential here hopefully (for the Lions) and that's always a dicey proposition when it hasn't manifested itself in the first 5 years of a players career. We get to draft a player only 5 picks down from where we found Sims in a strong draft. Bad deal? Get real!

Hate to be negative but...

Sims
Deon Grant
Tapp
Burleson
Redding

That's 5 starters. With strong talk of getting rid of several more (Kearney, Branch, Lucas, Spencer)

Let's see, Sims, Grant, Tapp, Burleson, Redding, Kearney, Branch, Lucas, and Spencer went to how many pro bowls between all of them? Huh? I didn't hear you......(listening hard) You said Kerney...... once? Now there's a ringing endorsement for keeping all of the above mentioned players on the team. Out of nine players, you had one player who was an impact player for one season. On a decent team, you should have had 3 impact players in that many starters and for multiple seasons. That's exactly what's wrong with the Seahawks. Too many good, above average players even, but none that stand out as elite and can play with the other team's elite players. I think you could replace all nine of those players with another group of average/above average players from free agency and still get your 4 or 5 wins out of this team if that's enough to satisfy you. If we don't start getting some impact players on this team, that's the future anyway.

Damn, damn, double damn! I'm starting to sound like STTBM here. Crap Almighty!

CTS,

I thought Henderson went to high school in LA. If not, my bad. Still, Carroll could have recruited him.

I'm done for now so I'll turn it back over to you guys. Sorry for taking up so much bandwith.

Bill T-

I think you read my post wrong because I was saying that we should have waited and let Philly have a chance at Sims. There were 4 teams interested in him and really only 3 because Chicago doesn't really have much ammo. Maybe only 2 because Holmy has been very quiet on that front and although they expressed interest there wasn't much else. That's where my Detroit vs Philly came from. Philly is a good team and I think they could afford to give up more for a guy they like. You can't say that Schneider knows or not if there would be a bidding war especially seems how they just traded McNabb today and got a high 2nd in compensation. They have lots of picks and with another high one it makes giving up a mid-rounder easier. So although you are correct in saying "we" don't know, you don't either and neither does Schneider for that matter. If Henderson was someone on their radar then maybe that changes things a bit, but according to Clayton, Philly may have been more interested than you are leading on.

I actually was fine with the deal as Sims obviously didn't fit what Gibbs wanted. I just wonder if we could have gotten more based on the picks Philly has and their obvious interest in him.

Not that it matters too much to me in this situation because I do understand Sims doesn't fit Gibb's scheme, but I do think taking a mid-rounder who turned into a starter with much upside and trading him for less than where he was drafted is a bad deal. I don't bitch about that because we don't know where Henderson's value fitted in all of this and because he isn't right for us. That's my 2 cents on that.

And Henderson's profile says he went to HS in Ponchatoula , LA. Again that's Louisiana not Los Angeles and I don't get where the Carroll connection is.

Tapp, Redding, Branch and Lucas are rotational guys anyway. I wouldn't classify any as starters. The times they actually started was due to injuries by other players.

Adding to what Omar wrote.
Sims did not fit the ZBS
Spencer got beat out at C by a rookie last year.
Burleson is a big loss only if we do not pick up a WR
Grant and Kerney are both ancient.

Ha ha Billt! Seriously though, I appreciated you last couple comments.

The only players I would have really liked to keep out of those guys is Tapp. Tapp worked hard to do and become what his coaches asked of him. As a rookie, he showed promise as a pass rusher, but was a joke at run defense--being 255 lbs will cause that. So the next year he bulked up to 270, and while his pass rushing fell off, his run D improved a great deal. Last year I dont know how anyone can truly tell who sucked and who didnt outside the craptastic schemes and thier deleterious effect on player performance.

To me, either coach him up, or have him become the situational pass rusher at 250 lbs he was his rookie year, and let LoJack etc come in on run downs.

Still, I feel Reed is a better player with far more potential than Tapp. But I would have liked to have gotten more for him. Lets just hope we draft a good player.

The rest of those guys can be replaced. Grant would have been a guy to keep around at a lesser salary, but he is better off and happier in NY playing for a team that has legitimate immediate hope of the postseason.

As the original poster of the "hate to be negative" comment about losing 9 starter/rotational guys my point got a little twisted in the discussion.
I never said these players were pro bowlers or game changers or that we should keep all, or any of them. In fact I said you can argue the quality of the guys we are losing. My point was, We are creating more holes then we are filling. So...
Who replaces them? It was mentioned the back ups are as good as the starters. Burleson, Grant, Lucas, and Tapp becomes Obomanu, Adams, Jennings, and LoJack. Same thing? ...maybe in some cases but I'm skeptical. We have the draft, maybe rookies are better than any of them? Once again, maybe but the bulk of our picks are 4th round and later. Free agency is an empty pool right now. I'm just not seeing a competetive team on paper, YET.
Who am I to question Pete Carroll and I truly hope he has some miracle master plan or his coaching will inspire current players to new heights. But haveing a 2-3 year rebuilding plan in the current NFL is unheard of and the fans won't stand for it, just ask Mora.
We're a long way from training camp, and I'll be fascinated to see the roster we produce and how they play. Right now, like a lot of fans, I'm skeptical.

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