Disfunction Junction

at 12:00(noon) today. I can't wait to hear his side of all of this. Also, Pete Carroll will have a press Conference in LA at 3:00pm today and KJR 950 will play it live.

I think its a bit of an overreaction on Ruskell's part to what Mora said about Holmgren. Afterall he was just being honest when asked what he felt about Mike. Didn't we all feel that way about Holmy. It's not like he came out and openly criticized Ruskell.

Wow, that is a pretty blunt text message. It is a dog-eat-dog world in the NFL I guess.

Besides which, Ruskell was allready gone, had failed miserably. Where does he even get off telling Mora he cant support bringing in Holmgren?! What hubris!

Yes, Ruskell you were 100% wrong that Mora was competent to be an NFL coach. He isnt. Your biggest mistakes, however, were in believing the hype surrounding your 2005 offseason. You thought you were King Sh%t, now youre just Sh%t. And Allen was wrong about Ruskell: should have stuck with Holmy and booted Timmay!

But there is nothing wrong with Mora wanting Holmgren back. Nothing at all. The fact that Timmay! obviously felt so me/vs/him towards Holmgren shows how right those of us were who always believed Timmay! was undermining Holmy and pushing him out the door.

Ruskell needs to take a good solid look in the mirror, then go revisit every one of his failed philosophies and all of his roster moves. Plenty were failures of epic proportions.

The guy never had a solid first round draft pick until Curry, ruined our offensive line, running game, WR corps performance, brought our offense in general from top 3 in the NFL to bottom 5. Brought our defense from contender to failure despite flushing it with money, ran off the best coach we ever had, left us with a legacy of disfunction and ineptitude, then has the GALL to expect Mora to dis Holmgren simply out of misplaced "loyalty" to Ruskell for hiring Mora in the first place?!

Anyone who thought Ruskell was a classy guy, or even a decent one, has to re-evaluate based on that little exchange. It kinda puts the last four years in a new light, dontcha think?!

Good riddance to both Timmay! the failed czar, and Mora. But at least I have some respect for Mora the human being. I no longer have any for Timmay! despite his penchant for drafting well outside the first two rounds.

This just further proves that there was a significant rift between Ruskell and Holmgren. I recalled a presser in which Ruskell mocks everybody for insinuating that there were problems between he and Holmgren. Now it all comes out. Ruskell proves again that his ego is so large that he is smarter than all of Seahawk Nation. Thanks for the mess by the way TR.

Ruskell I was 100% wrong about YOU. Calling out someones class with a text like this shows that you are the classless guy

Ruskell can take his ego and his incompetence and ride off into the same Seahawks sunset as Bob Whitett and Ken Behring. I have no doubt the organizational audit uncovered front office conflict as the top problem. Bill Parcells once said "if they want me to cook dinner, they should at least let me shop for the groceries." Ruskell didn't know how to buy the right ingredient for the dish his cook was trying to prepare. Good riddance.

This story, should not be a story. It speaks volumes, in my opinion, on why Paul Allen stepped in and demanded Mora to be fired. He obviously saw this type of dysfunction on his team behind the scenes, and wanted to do away with all of it. He just cut ties with all of the people and drama of the last 5 years (Holmgren included) in hopes that a charismatic coach, with popularity and respect to figure head our team.

I applaud Paul Allen for his decision, lets hope Pete can bring something special. I'm relieved to see the staff from the last 5 years removed at this time.

Go Hawks.

will never have a job in the NFL again. He screwed the pooch and is paying for it!

cry me a river. I can see how ruskell could be hurt over this- but if he was truly a professional he'd let it slide of his back.

Also i always looked at Mora praising Holmgren as him trying to save his ass. I'm glad to be moving on- i'm not a Carroll fan at all- i just hope he'll earn all his doubters praise.

Yes, Ruskell is an ass for that. However, what the hell is Hugh Millan doing sharing the contents of a text message between Mora and Ruskell? I realize that Millan is a good friend of Mora, so Mora probably shared it with Millan, but that sort of thing shouldn't be shared, IMHO.

Ha! And all the ridicule I took on this site because I believed Ruskell and Holmgren were battling behind the scenes. And all the abuse heaped on because I believed the evidence pointed to Ruskell deliberately sandbagging Holmgren. Well, Saint Timmay! has shown his colors, and they are crap brown and running yellow.

Well, thank God we are heading in a new direction. Even if Caroll fails, at least we might end up with some downfield passing along the way!

They are rich. Go have fun. Help the poor and starving. Take a vacation. Leave it all in the rear view mirror you idiots!

It really irritates me that Ruskell cannot even now see his mistakes, and take responsibility for his own failed philosophies, roster moves, and coaching hires. Mora is not the reason Ruskell was fired, merely the catalyst. Timmay!s own hubris will likely prevent him becoming an NFL employee again.

But I'll bet he blames Mora for that too!

@USAFANARC Millen was doing his job as member of the Seattle sports media. The text goes a long way in proving the disfuction that has crippled this team for the last 3 seasons, and therefore is perfectly acceptible material for him to speak about. What reason would Millen have NOT to share this with his listeners?

Mora's lack of class calling out Mare for missing field goals when the offense failed inside the redzone 5 times in the Bear's game and still had a chance to win and questioning Spencer's heart when he was snapping and grappling with 350lb DTs with a broken hand was pretty classless. Can maybe chalk that up to the pain of losing.

Ruskell's text showing he expected Mora to side with him in a power struggle against one of the most upright, respected men in the league shows him to be even more classless than the coach he hired.

I'm with you Gnarly, looks like Mr. Allen was looking to send a very clear message to the league that this kind of pettiness would not be tolerated in his organization.

Carroll had a much better NFL win-loss record than Belichick, including multiple playoff appearances in only a few years as a head coach. Given his W-L record at USC and the large number of quality NFL Oline, skill and Defensive players that developed on his watch, I am a little more than slightly optimistic that he can develop a program here that players would actually WANT to play for. Which would give us a few more wins and at least have losses be competitive during the rebuilding process.

I, for one, would punch a coach in the mouth with my one good hand if he insulted me to the press the way Mora did to Spencer after giving everything he had to save the coach's job.

Mora's biggest problem was that he never knew when to shut his mouth. It got him into trouble in Atlanta, it got him into trouble earlier in the season when he overreacted to Mare's missed kicks, and now this. Forget the Xs and Os stuff, I'm starting to think that Mora doesn't have the basic temperament to be a head coach. Just stick to the cliches and platitudes and you won't get into trouble. Oh well, old news now.

At the same time I don't think Millen should be airing dirty laundry like this, it's not helping any of the principles.

bleedshawkblue, as i was telling parker when mora threw mare under the bus was the very moment he lost my vote of confidence as a HC. So happy that Allen and Co decided to clean house and start "tabula rasa."

This ESPN blog, says everything I was thinking about the hire of Carroll!---------------------

Give Pete Carroll about one year before he starts realizing the mistake he just made. By that time, he'll be wondering why he resigned from USC to become head coach of the Seattle Seahawks.

That fat deal he recently accepted -- one reportedly worth $35 million over five years -- won't be nearly as capable of insulating his pride from all the abuse he'll be taking publicly. The players also won't be embracing him like they have in college. Before you know it, that constant smile that has become Carroll's trademark will be harder and harder to find.

Regardless of how optimistic some Carroll supporters may be about this news, the man is going to fail in the NFL. He's already been fired by the New York Jets (whom he coached in 1994) and the New England Patriots (he was there from 1997 to '99), which is all you really need to know.

A nine-year absence from pro football doesn't mean Carroll has learned how to be a better head coach at that level. It means only that he's become one more man who thought it was better to give up a cushy gig for a shot at the big time.


[+] EnlargeSteve Dykes/Getty Images
Pete Carroll's demeanor and coaching style make him a much better fit for the college ranks.
Although Carroll deserves credit for securing a nice paycheck in this move, there's little else about the decision that makes sense. It's as if Carroll dismissed all the recent struggles of other head coaches who jumped from college to the NFL. Nick Saban couldn't last more than two years with the Miami Dolphins before fleeing to Alabama. Bobby Petrino didn't even finish a full year in Atlanta before racing off to Arkansas. Steve Spurrier was miserable with the Washington Redskins until he decided it was best to disappear and then land at South Carolina.

Carroll might think he's got something more to offer than those men -- or others like Butch Davis, Mike Riley and Dennis Erickson. In fact, he's exactly like his peers. He's let his ego swell to the point that he can't see his limitations anymore. Being a mediocre head coach in the league (he was 34-33 in four seasons, including postseason play) only made him hunger for the best possible chance to return someday.

What those other coaches eventually learned is that there is a substantial difference between leading grown men and leading boys who are becoming men. Like Carroll, most of those coaches came from places where they had dictatorial power and a gift for nabbing hordes of talented players who could elevate their programs. The NFL is different. It's easy to suffer through lousy personnel moves that haunt your franchise for years and even easier to end up with players who don't respect you.

Carroll should know this last fact better than anybody. He never became a top head coach because the perception was that he was too soft. As much as his hypercaffeinated, rah-rah nature excited college kids who gravitated to his affable personality, it had an opposite effect in the league. The players didn't merely see a players' coach. They saw a pushover, which is the last thing an NFL head coach can afford to be.

This is why Carroll's latest gig puts him in a tricky situation. If he comes at pro players with the same easygoing approach that defined his college tenure, they're going to push the boundaries with him. If he tries to harden his personality to be tougher with them, that would be a bigger mistake. If there's one thing that players can sniff out more than a coach they can manipulate, it's one who's a fraud.

About the only thing Carroll has going for him is time. Given how much money Seahawks owner Paul Allen is going to pay him, Carroll will have ample opportunity to make his mark. That may be an ironic thing to say about a team that just fired head coach Jim Mora after one season, but the Seahawks clearly believe in Carroll's potential. They've bought into the hype that a big name with extensive college success can create those same results on a more demanding stage.

But the more this story plays out, the more it seems that Carroll is likely running away from something instead of to something. NCAA investigators have been sniffing around his program, with former Trojans star Reggie Bush and current running back Joe McKnight being targets of such probes. If there was enough smoke hovering around USC, Carroll could've felt it was time to flee before the fire emerged. He wouldn't be the first coach in history to operate with that kind of foresight.

Now that he's back in the NFL, Carroll will eventually discover that plenty has changed since he left more than a decade ago. The players have gotten bigger, faster, stronger and, yes, smarter. They're probably better at recognizing a coach who isn't ready to deal with all the challenges that come with leading grown men who make tons of money. And what Carroll hasn't realized yet is that he's still the type of guy who falls into that category.

OK, it'd now seem that what basically amounted to a great big pissing contest is over. All involved are no longer part of the organization. Their involvement and/or contributions (or lack thereof) are now a matter of interest only to historians. Nothing they have to say has any effect on anything 'Hawks related, going forward.

I'm as skeptical as the next guy about what Pete Carroll can bring to the table (why does the face of Dennis Erickson keep popping up in my head?) - but at the very least, it's the next step; a new start.

I'll continue to support the 'Hawks and will scream my fool head off every time I'm at a game, regardless. But I just have a sinking feeling that we fans may be in for a few years of mediocrity on the field. Sure hope I'm wrong ...

I am not a Pete Caroll fan. But these articles sound like sour grapes from jealous schoolboys.

Caroll, unlike the other failed coaches mentioned, WORKED HIS WAY UP through the ranks IN THE NFL first, becoming an NFL coach. He was a sucessful coordinator in the NFL first, which proves he knows X's and O's. He knows what it takes to win in the NFL, and maybe now, with Paul ALlen's huge blank check, some serious clout, and a roster allready chock full of talent, he can accomplish his goals.

Coaching the 1994 Jets was an impossible task, so that doesnt count in my opinion. He faltered taking over for Parcells, but how much of that was due to having an owner that had yet to open the purse strings? Even Bellicheat failed in his first multi-year NFL gig, much worse than Caroll.

While Caroll's personality may not work in the NFL, I dont understand peoples fascination with jerk HC's. Ask the Steelers, esp Rothlisberger, if they want Cowher back? Ask who they would go to war for--Cowher or Tomlin? I bet you they wouldnt cross the street for Cowher now, but they'd all damn near die for Tomlin.

To me, this sounds like rage that a backwater like Seattle has done something noteworthy. You can feel the bitterness and envy oozing from between the sentences. As if it is somehow perverted that Seattle didnt do the expected thing and chase Shanahan the has-been--just because East Coast writers didnt see this one coming.

Talking heads are rarely right, and what makes them think this time they will be? Merely thier own self-infatuation, a regular plague in places like ESPN and Sports Illustrated.

Plus, if they are so worried about players respecting Carol, maybe they should take a look at Seattle's players. One thing Ruskell left us is a group nearly free from self-aggrandizing buttholes that seem to fester and mulitiply in most NFL locker rooms. As long as Caroll pushes the players no harder than he pushes himself, so long as he treats them like men and challenges them daily, so long as the team comes out with an acutal competitive gameplan on Sundays, I think the players will play hard for him.

Plus, much of a HC's job now is to do Big Picture Stuff--the meat and potatoes of schemes and plays on offense and defense will be built and implemented by the Coordinators. IF those guys are top-notch, and Pete manages them well, we will be fine. Caroll doesnt have to be a Genius, just a good staff manager and player-freindly cheering section.

I would rather have had Holmgren and his WCO offense back with a coach of his choice--to me that would have made more sense than Caroll. But ALlen has been after Caroll for years, so this really shouldnt come as such a shock. And tell me who else Seattle should bring in?! Cowher is a douche and a mediocre coach, Shanahan stopped innovating after his second Super Bowl, and everyone else is either a failed coach or a Coordinator who is as big a risk, if not more so, than Caroll. And Dungy wasnt interested.

Face it, East Coast Media dipshits, Seattle is back on the map, and we are gonna have some offense!

As for him leaving USC due to the fallout--wouldnt you?! Whether he did anything wrong or not, he was gonna get punished. Ask Don James what happens when the NCAA gets their hooks into your University. James retired due to bitterness at the Pac-10 for deliberatley trying to squash his school since he had the Pac-10 locked up, and bitterness at the NCAA for overreacting and acting like USC's pitbull. At least Caroll is bailing for an even bigger challenge rather than retiring.

And one other thing: There is nothing wrong with wanting a second chance at success--all the good coaches have that drive. Caroll wants to succeed as an NFL coach, and should be commended for his courage and determination, not laughed at and scorned, regardless of whether he succeeds or not this go round.

"Plus, much of a HC's job now is to do Big Picture Stuff--the meat and potatoes of schemes and plays on offense and defense will be built and implemented by the Coordinators. IF those guys are top-notch, and Pete manages them well, we will be fine. Caroll doesnt have to be a Genius, just a good staff manager and player-freindly cheering section."

STTBM, this is the most important section of what you wrote. and what others seem to be forgetting. and from the sound it, carroll is off to good a start in this deparment. who's not stoked to have Ken Norton as our LB coach. and more importantly, a contemporary and progressive offense. lets hope we get a gunslinger in here in the next year or so to execute our new and improve high powered offense. a coach is only as good as his assistants, lets try and keep this in perspective. mora unfortunately never realized the errors of his way by hiring knapp.

I know everyone is hyped up about Jeremy Bates as OC for the Seahawks, but I'm troubled by a few things about his resume. One, this will be his first stint as a OC in the NFL. While with the Broncos he was a QB's coach in his last season(200 of a three year deal which he worked well with Jay Cutler who in turn went to the Pro Bowl. His first 2 seasons he was an o-line coach and a wide receivers coach. He had a chance to get to know players and gradually ended up being a good QB's coach. The 2008 season ended and went to USC in Jan. 2009. On January 19, 2009, USC Trojans' head coach Pete Carroll hired Bates to replace outgoing coach Carl Smith, who had only taken the quarterbacks job two weeks earlier before moving back to the NFL; Smith had replaced Steve Sarkisian, who had taken the head coaching position of the Washington Huskies after serving as both quarterbacks coach and offensive coordinator; John Morton had been promoted to offensive coordinator. Bates calls plays from the field while Morton works from the coaches' booth in the press box, similar to a previous arrangement run by the Trojans during the 2005-2006 seasons between Sarkisian and Lane Kiffin, respectively. Can anyone tell me why we think bates is ready to be a OC for the NFL? This is scarier than Knapp calling plays! I'm not saying Bates can't do the job, but this is the "BIG TIME"! Can this guy build the rapport with Matt Hassellbeck, T.J. Houshmanzadeh, Nate Burleson, and Walter Jones(if he comes back)? Every one is raving about Jeremy Bates, but after looking at his resume, and yes he has done some good things, but after looking at his resume, I'm not sold.

Carroll will be introduced as HC tomorrow during presser at the VMAC, 10AM.

The text to Mora from Ruskell only serves to illustrate the disfunction and animosity that is/was pervasive in the Hawks' front office. I honestly think that Lieweke is the genesis of most of the disfunction though, and I would be interested in what everyone here thinks.

Office politics starts somewhere, and this started at the top with Tod Lieweke. I am going to guess that everything else that has happened this past year or two had run its course through Lieweke's office, and I would bet he knew of Ruskell's plans to supplant Holmgren with Mora, which weakened the team already.

Proof of Lieweke's head games and resulting Seahawks' ineptness? 1) Ruskell was already gone when Holmgren was interviewed for the Pres. job, and Holmgren refused a position he stated he was extremely interested in before after both sides could not come to a consensus about Holmgren's role and power. Do you think the Carroll courting was coming out then? 2) Mora is fired after being given a vote of confidence. 3) Reports surface of Pete Carroll being courted around the same time Mora is given a vote of confidence. 4) Two GM candidates cancel interviews while all of this is going down, making me wonder if those in football circles knew about Carroll, Mora, Ruskell, and Holmgren issues and they stem from the one party all the issues have in common. 5) A HC is hired before a GM. Horse before cart approach? Does this solidify Lieweke's stranglehold in the front office?

I don't know. This just seems like the most logical place to start. We almost always blame a QB for offensive failures, a HC for team failurs, and GMs for organizational failures. What role has Lieweke played in the fiasco fo the las two years?

My point to the previous post, if you didn't get it, is that Jeremy Bates grew with the Broncos for 3 seasons and had the chance to move in many directions, eventually helping Jay Cutler as well as having the O-Line and wide receivers on the same page. He is coming to the Seahawks organization as the OC not having that same rapport as he did with the Broncos. Now, the USC deal is practically the same scenario because Pete already had the rapport with the USC players, Pete has the last word, so success was the inevitable for Jeremy Bates.

We won't know if he's ready, until he has a chance to demonstrate his abilities. It appears we will need to standby and watch over the next season to see where this is going.

As for his rapport with your list of players ( Matt Hassellbeck, T.J. Houshmanzadeh, Nate Burleson, and Walter Jones) - I'm hoping only one of those guys is here next year. I'm not concernted about the new coaches mingling with the old players.

I'm more interested to see who the new front office brings in to build around. It's time for new blood.

Sorry if this has been mentioned already but this could be a good thing for those of us who want brandon marshall right?

I want all those players back next year--unless we can get a better one at thier positions. Walt may retire no matter what we want, and if we can do better than Nate we should. Housh is fine, just overpaid--but it aint my money. Hass is worth bringing to camp and seeing if he can grasp the new offense and make the throws it demands. He isnt worth much in trade, and keeping him might end up being a near-Kurt Warner jackpot.

No one knows if Bates will be a good OC, but we all better hope. Wierd that Caroll will be DC too, but at least he has successful experience at that job title. Maybe he will be smart and keep Gus Bradley as an assistant DC to take some of the load off.

Lieweke is another Big-headed douche like Ruskell, and it looks as if Allen has clipped his wings a little. I think most of our problems were Ruskell-made, but its pretty obvious that Lieweke didnt want Holmgren being the big honcho around here--the team wasnt big enough for the both of 'em. Well, Leiweke won that showdown, but then ALlen bitch-slapped him and fired Mora, then brought Carol in.

Who knows what exactly was happening when, who made what decisions...its impossible to know with all the wrangling and all the conflicting reports being aired on TV and over the net.

I think Carol is Allens choice all the way, and Lieweke is on thin ice.

None of this would have been necessary if ALlen had realized what I did a long time ago--that Ruskell's head was inflating rapidly to planet-size and that he was sandbagging Holmgren. Then Timmay! would have gotten the ax, and Holmgren would still be here.

And even if Holmy was done as a coach (aguable), at least our offense would have been top 10, isntead of bottom-5.

according to pat Kirwan on Sirius Mike Shanahan gave Jeremy Bates play calling power,Mike had never done that with any OC before.That would be like Holmgren giving up his play calling to Zorn ....would not happen.Also sounds like Carroll runs a Hybrid zone blocking

Glad to see that Tim Ruskell is a guy filled with character.

Next we'll hear about how he (accompanied by an escort) wrapped his Jaguar around a lightpole after a night of Jagermeisters and strap-ons.

Make no mistake, I think it's good that Ruskell is gone, but one thing I'd point out about that rumor'd text message.

Assuming he did send it, how did it get "leaked" to the general public? The only logical way is for Mora to have leaked it...what does that say about him?

I have yet to hear Holmgren say in public anything negative about Mora or Ruskell or any coach for that manner.That is why I respect him.I am so glad it is all over and look forward to a winning team again.

All of you can be as negative as you want but I will decide to be excited until there is no longer a reason to be!!

You have to give Paul Allen this...He knows how to create hype!!!

I agree with STTBM, this whole episode just goes to show how egotistical and petty Tim Ruskell is. It should be obvious now that he had no real intention of working WITH Holmgren, but viewed his hire as a mandate to turn the team into the Seattle Buccaneers. It is speculative for sure, but I suspect that he would have liked to replace Holmgren earlier, but going to the SB in '05 threw a monkey wrench into that plan.
I disagree that it was inappropriate for Mora's text message to be shared. The great fans of Seattle deserve to know why a team that had justifiably higher expectations wound up going into the toilet.
I think this current situation shows that Paul Allen learned a valuable lesson. While I'm leery of Pete Carroll, I think he deserves considerable input into personnel, so that there are no excuses and no in-fighting. In hindsight I think Allen (Whitsitt?) overreacted to Holmgren being overwhlemed by the dual roles. It would have been much wiser to promote Ted Thompson to a GM position and let him play the Heckert role to Holmgren. It may seem backward to hire the HC first, but at least we can be confident that he will be in harmony with his personnel people.
As far as Leiweke, I don't know enough to do anything more than speculate, but he sure comes off as the college AD who wanted to put HIS stamp on the program. Rumor has it that Holmgren pissed off one of his friends who was sticking his nose into something he didn't know anything about. From what little I know, it sure seems like he at least contributed to the dysfunction. I don't know if the Mora firing and pursuit of Carroll was a bitch slap to Leiweke, but it sure comes off that way. It wouldn't surprise me at all to see him job-searching once the dust settles. One needs only wiki the Portland Trailblazers to see how Allen deals with people who cause dysfunction.

"I disagree that it was inappropriate for Mora's text message to be shared." - TacomaHawk

Actually, by way of clarification, I didn't say it was inappropriate for Mora to release the text message. I am just stating that it says something about the man that he did.
Ruskell was gone so he could have just ignored it and moved on with his life and wrote it off to an immature text message from someone who was angry over losing his job.
Instead Mora released it, which served no real purpose...it wasn't as if Ruskell was coming back to the Hawks.
But either way, it isn't a crime to have released it, it just provides a window into both men involved.

...are yu guys covering this???

What is being said??

Neither Ruskell nor Mora look very good in the light of this latest revelation.

I've defended both of them in the past, but I'm glad they're gone.

Mora doesnt know when to keep his mouth shut, but I bet that text from Ruskell hurt like a bitch. I dont blame him for leaking it to Hugh. At this point, Mora and Ruskell's career's are in the toilet so Mora may feel he's got nothing to lose and something to gain by exposing what a petty tyrant egomaniac Ruskell is.

I have to say that I am excited, if for no other reason than to be FINALLY rid of Knapp. Mora too. He just isnt HC material. Maybe Caroll will actually draft some skill positions in the first two rounds?! Woulndt that be novel!

I have yet to hear Holmgren say in public anything negative about Mora or Ruskell or any coach for that manner

Actually, Ruskell hasn't said anything negative in public either.

Nor has Mora. He's using Millen to spread the dirt, the same way politicians always delegate the mudslinging to one of their staffers -- or even better, to a friendly reporter.

I know it's heresy, but Holmgren played this office politics game too. He never said any negative himself. He didn't have to, because guys like Steve Kelley were saying it for him.

Highlander...I'm with you 100%. Mora seemed a little too ancious to air dirty laundry. Whether it was throwing his players under the bus or sharing a text message with the public, he needs to learn how to keep things in house. He can't be helping himself with future employment if his potential boss sees that Mora is quick to share this kind of stuff with the media.

That escort being a certain guy named Bill from AK...lol!

Hugh Millan is a douch bag and is about as exciting as a paper towel.He is a drama queen.As for Ruskell I am surprised he let that one slip and agree that one may cost him big time.

STTMB i have to say I agree with you 100% on this one.

Mr Fish,

yup, Holmy played the game, but he knew how to play it. Besides, I would argue he was justified. I can't blame him for wanting to get the news out about what a nimrod "Honest Bob" Whitsitt was. Notice how Paul Allen has washed his hands of Whitsitt? And what is ol' Trader Bob doing nowadays? Nothing in the NBA or NFL. Then he had to deal with Ruskell, whose true colors are coming out now. It speaks volumes that Whitsitt has faded into obscurity and Ruskell is following him, while Homlgren is headed to the HOF.
In the end, I'm glad Paul Allen cleaned house. I will always love Holmgren, just like GB fans do (hmmm, wonder how Buc and Falcon fans feel about Ruskell?) but it's probably for the better that he moved on.

Those who want to hold Holmgren blameless should keep in mind that it's very likely that the internal friction got started when he was stripped of his GM duties. People say Ruskell's ego wouldn't let him work with Holmgren, but I think Holmgren's ego was chafing too and that he resented the newcomer who had taken his place. I don't think he ever really accepted Ruskell's authority over him, and that Ruskell was mostly reacting to this.

In retrospect, it would have been better to hire a GM from Holmgren's "old pals" network. That probably wouldn't have stuck in his craw as much as bringing in an "outsider" like Ruskell did.

not only are these posts about BillT classless, they are probably hypocritical as well. I remember reading a LOT of posts about how glad people were to be rid if "that conservative Holmgren" and how excited they were about having someone (yup, Knapp) who would "open up the playbook" and make this team exciting. Now you can't find a single person supporting Knapp, so obviously quite a few people changed their minds.
Disagree with someone all you want, but the escort and sucking stuff shows a complete lack of class. Just one man's opinion.

Covered by Seattle PI

http://blog.seattlepi.com/football/archives/190762.asp

I concur. The whole disfunction started when Holmgren was demoted. We fan's can not know what went down in the locker room and front office. All the he said/she said speculation is rubbish.

This is what makes the move for Pete Carroll and steering clear of Holmgren and Mora such a great move, IMO. No carry over baggage.

Mr. Fish,

I agree that Holmgren had a huge ego. But all the good ones do. It's not so much a matter of holding him blameless as it is conceding that he knew what he was talking about while those who interfered did not.

Holmgren might have "known what he was talking about" but my point is that he was one of the main contributors to what was poisoning the Seahawks. How does that stack up against his claim to be some kind of expert on how to run a football organization? He wasn't the "team player" he always said you had to have.

That said, I don't hold Ruskell blameless either. He should have known going in that the Big Show was going to be a challenge, and he didn't respond to that challenge very well.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c...=CBSsports

The Pete Carroll Affair.

Pun intended.

Remember when Charlie Weis last month said Carroll, the married father of three, was "living with a grad student in Malibu?'' Carroll, furious, said it was "untrue, irresponsible ... and incredible that he'd be talking about me like that.''

Aah, the wonders of the NFL schedule, which has AFC teams visiting NFC teams once every four years, and vice versa:

Kansas City (Weis' new employer) at Seattle, date TBA, next fall, Qwest Field.

That'll be an interesting pregame conversation on the field between the new Kansas City offensive coordinator and the new Seattle head coach.

I might even so far as to say that Holmgren's turning down Leiweke's offer this year was his final "f__ you" to the man who humiliated him back in 2003.

"Revenge is a dish that's best served cold."

On 710ESPN, Kevin Calabro is saying that Tony Dungy has turned down the pffer of being the Seahawks President of Football operations.

Fat fingers.....

pffer = offer

http://espn.go.com/blog/ncfnation/post/_/id/17894/carroll-seahawks-too-good-to-pass-up

I might even so far as to say that Holmgren's turning down Leiweke's offer this year was his final "f__ you" to the man who humiliated him back in 2003. ......................................................Are you kidding me ,he laid it out this is how I can help you,But I must do it like this....they said no,nothing else to it.. But i am glad he is gone

Mr. Fish,

I simply disagree that he was a main contributor. It all started with Whitsitt, the man who appointed himself GM and had to be fired by Leiweke. Whitsitt's history speaks for itself. He was a basketball guy to begin with.
I think Holmy staying was, in part, being a team player (yes, there were other reasons too). I was worried he would resign outright at the time. Instead he admitted he was overwhelmed and made mistakes and re-committed himself to the original goal, getting Seattle to a SB.
Holmy could have worked better with Ruskell, but who knows, like Gnarly said we have no idea what happened behind closed doors. In my opinion, hiring Ruskell only perpetuated the problems. They should have done what they are doing now, hiring a GM who is in cahoots with the coach, which falls on Leiweke. It speaks volumes to me that Paul Allen had to put his foot down and see that the mistakes of the past were not repeated. I suspect that this whole thing is a rebuke of Leiweke's "them joining us" mentality. His idea was to hire a GM to serve over Mora. Allen had enough and said no, we're cleaning house. I mean, Carroll is definitely not joining us, this is most surely us joining him.
Make no mistake, however, Bob Whitsitt was the genesis of most of the dysfunction in Seattle.

Go Hughey Baby!

Mr. Fish,


"The Seahawks had a 7-9 season in 2002, and late in December of 2002, Holmgren resigned from his position as general manager of the team, saying he would remain as head coach."

"Tod Leiweke enters his sixth season with the Seattle Seahawks after joining the club in June 2003."

please explain to me how Leiweke humiliated Holmgren if he was hired 6 months AFTER Holmy was demoted.

I will give Holmgren this much: he coached his ass off during our Super Bowl year. It's an interesting question what was motivating him that year, but ultimately it doesn't matter.

Clean slate, baby!

TacomaHawk,

I stand corrected.

My bet Holmy was motivated by the same thing as his four other superbowls (two as head coach and two as OC ) ........winning.,.. slate clean GO HAWKS

Lieweke blindsided everyone!

I guess Seahawk fans are making progress. It used to be that Bob Whitsitt was irrationally blamed for everything that went wrong in Seattle. Now there's a new target.

The whole disfunction started when Holmgren was demoted.

The Seahawks' success of the last decade corresponds precisely with Holmgren's demotion. In fact, the team went from wretchedly, embarrassingly awful on defense to okay on defense, and that coupled with Holmgren's obvious talents as an offensive coach were the biggest factors in the five year playoff run. Holmgren's demotion was the best thing ever to happen to the team.

Holmgren's demotion was the best thing ever to happen to the team.

Yes. Even though it ultimately destroyed them.

Yes. Even though it ultimately destroyed them.

If you have an argument to that effect please present it.

Holmgren was demoted immediately after the 2002 season. The Seahawks went to the playoffs the next five consecutive seasons. If the demotion of Holmgren in December of 2002 was responsible for events in January of 2010 then were the decisions of Dennis Erickson and Randy Mueller responsible for the events of 2003-2005?

Lets get thru the drama and focus on the draft already.How much time needs to be wasted on the Mora,Ruskell and Holmgren.We should hire Todd Mcshay to help us with the draft.

Thanks for the vote of confidence! Your input is insightful. What is your opinion on the topic? It would be nice to know.

C'mon Steve S, you're a bright guy and should know that my argument in support of my last comment has already been presented in this thread.

You're free to disagree with that argument, of course. As I said, it doesn't really matter. It's a new day and all that is past history. I'd rather move on to discuss the GM candidates, the draft, and what Carroll and his staff will bring to the team. I'm getting very intrigued by the implications of having Jeremy Bates as our OC...

Mr. Fish, I read your comments upthread and I don't really see an argument so much as assertions. You think that Holmgren having his feelings hurt in December of 2002 led us to where we are today. Honestly, I can't make any sense out of that. If hurt feelings cause organizational dysfunction, and organizational dysfunction leads to the longest string of playoff appearances in the franchise's history, then more hurt feelings, please.

Demoting Holmgren solved an immediate problem, which was that he didn't have clue one about building a defense. Nobody knew at that point that the man who demoted Holmgren would himself be canned a couple of years later, that Ruskell would be brought in, that Holmgren would burn out at the end of his contract, and so on. Seems to me you could make at least as strong a case that firing Whitsitt started the cascading failure as demoting Holmgren.

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