"Rebuilding Phase"

Writing about next year's draft 6 games into the season. Ouch!

Will we find Ruskells replacement?Thats all I want to know.There is plenty out there and Paul Allen is not a fool.You can bet he will at the very least take a look at who is out there.

I agree the Hawks are staring a rebuilding project right in the face. I also agree there are some pieces to work with. However, I guess when you boil it down I don't the Ruskell is the man for the job. He has far more "negative" decisions on the ledger than "positive". Time for a change.

RT-Lock
RG-Sims
C-Spencer
LG-Unger
LT-Either a draft pick or a free agent. LT is the wild card.

If Lock, Sims and/or Spencer can't stay healthy for the rest of this year, and that's a BIG IF, then we'll probably see a free agent or 1st day pick starting opening day '10. There may be one of each starting for a couple of them.

Tim feels he can draft lineman in the later rounds, but he did choose Spencer in the first. Sir your plan was to replace Jones with Lock this happened fast though but I just feel more emphasis should have been in the trenches. You let Hutch go for 500,000 savings gamble and got out smarted by Vikings when we could not match like you planned. I still think that move was ilegal but we will never get respect untill we rebuild our bigs. I love your philosophy but question your sexy additions. With all due respect and in need of spell checker. Get it done. Go Wrotto you handled Dockett ok last year and the rest of our line way to battle get healthy!

Monroe - far more negative than positive? I disagree. His drafts have been largely successful and his free agent signings have been respectable and achieved their aim (namely, not drafting for need).

It's a very different game to come in as GM of a winning organization as Ruskell did. Most new GMs are hired in a rebuild mode, he was hired with a lot of delicate care needed to keep former GM and Head Coach Holmgren happy.

I think he has done a great job, given his task. No one can blame the injuries on him, though people keep trying. The last two years we have become a worse football team, but injuries DO play a significant role there. So does coaching, so does aging, so does an ability to recognize every need. Our O-Line is bad, but just belaboring the point that there are few first and second round picks doesn't win the argument.

Round of Steelers picks, left to right: 3rd - 6th - 6th - 3rd - 4th

Giants: 5th - Undrafted - Undrafted - 2nd - 3rd

Colts: 6th - Undrafted - Undrafted - 2nd - 4th

The list goes on. Now, admittedly, the Colts and Steelers don't have phenomenal lines, but they are teams that just plain win, and that starts in the trenches.

The offense is in shambles because Ruskell rarely drafts offensive players and when he does they usually SUCK. For 2005-07 Ruskell only took the following O players in rds 4 and higher: Ray Willis, David Greene, Spencer, Sims, Wrotto. All of these picks have been terrible or soso at best (Willis being the best). When you have such a higher percentage of trash draft picks on the offensive side then you get what we have here once again - an old injured offensive team with no young talent waiting in the shadows.

I would argue that Ruskell has drafted terribly in Seattle, especially with the high picks. Sure Tatupu and Hill where sweet finds and 2009 looks nice on paper, but the rest has been quite bad overall and we are paying for it now.

Sick of seeing that a-hole in charge of our beloved team..

As someone posted earlier..how about this combo leading this franchise..

Holmgren as GM
Gruden as head coach

Ruskell clearly has more Negatives than Positives. Worst Ruskell moves of Seahawk history:
1). Hutch - enough said, TR should be lynched for this alone.
2). Deon Branch - but he's a good character guy right, yeah!
3). Terrible 1st round picks (of picking at #4 doesn't count).
4). Habitually ignoring or downplaying clear issues w/ OL and RB

He is the front office guy, and heads need to roll for all of these mistakes.

The best teams in the league draft their offensive playmakers. Almost all of our offensive playmakers are free agent cast offs from other teams. This is why I hate Ruskell.

Ruskell won't be here next year to do any rebuilding, his ass is kicked to the curb; it's the one silver lining of the season. I'll never be happier to watch my team fire anyone than Tim Ruskell, the guy who only drafts defensive players in the era of spread-offense domination.

The biggest thing standing between the seahawks and contention is offensive line; this is plain as day. And, of course, you're also right in that we need to start grooming the replacement for hasselbeck. Looks like we ought to have a high enough pick to draft that replacement this year, as well.

So, things aren't so bad.

You cannot miss on #31. The first three rounds are players that should be starters and contributors on your team. Rounds 4-7 are players who fill a role and play special teams with the hope that you get lucky and they turn out to be starters or stars.

Ruskell has stated time and time again that he believes that you do not use your hight draft picks on O-lineman, you draft them lower and you hope that they excel as a unit.

Ruskell has not done anything to restock the offense.

WR's - Burleson is good not great.
Branch is a bust.
Courtney Taylor, Ben Obamanu and Jordan Kent
are draft busts
TJ - good now but you cannot expect him to be
good for the duration of his contract.

OL - Hutch - don't need to go there
Chris Spencer - Bust
Ray Willis - ok
Mansfield Wrotto - who knows

RB - J Jones - bust

CB - Kelly Jennings - Bust
Andre Dyson - Bust
Kelly Herndon - good then was let go

S - Deon Grant - Good not great
Brian Russell - Awful

DE - Kerney - Good for one year, injured next now
looks like he's slowing down.
Darryl Tapp - situational guy at best
LoJack - Is looking better this year

DT - Mebane - Best player on defense
Red Bryant - We'll see too early to tell.

So Ruskell has failed to pick up a future QB, signed a RB who was demoted in Dallas, Traded for a WR who is too small to play in the WCO, Ignored the O-Line in the upper rounds of the draft except for this year (Unger). Signed an DE who was already 30 when he signed, Signed a safety who was on the downside of his career (Russell), missed on Kelly Jennings, in fact missed on two first round picks, Spencer and Jennings.

Chris, good write up, however I do not agree with your comment about "Russkel being good in the draft". Please dont give him credit for picking Curry at 4. That was a no-brainer. Everyone and their mother knew Curry was the best player in the draft. This team will not be anywhere close to what we used to be as long as Russkel is w/team. I feel bad for Mora, he is set to fall because of his boss.

mora is a whinning crying little baby.

John_S your thinking is flawed on many counts starting with j. jones i doubt anyone could run behind this line. he is a failure because of the line. most importantly you need to ask how many draft picks were all him or some holmy we dont know
what kind of deal was done there to keep holmy happy.

If in fact we are in a rebuilding phase what a terrible signing Housh was. I heard the latest out of that idiots mouth is that the Bengals would be 6-0 if he was playing for them. Am I the only one who's already tired of his act after 6 games? I wish there was an escape clause in his contract.

cannot make plays without protection for the QB. The line needs to come together, somehow, some way. Next year we need to add offensive playmakers through the draft. If that "play" is pancaking a defensive end- I'll take it!

Cleveland drafted a LT in the first round who has turned out to be great. But guess what? Cleveland sucks.

sorry for the double post, but I have to get this off my chest:

The Ruskell haters- calm down. Let me give you a reason why

He's not going away.

Why is he not going away?

He just got to hire a head coach for the first time in his career as a GM. This coach he chose who can work with him as they rebuild the roster.

This team won 4 consecutive division titles. Now its time to reload the core of the team. You could actually argue that he's mostly done doing so, on defense. Offensively there is more work to do.

I just don't see them canning him one year into his HC. If you bring in a new GM, he'll want his HC here, so Mora would be on the short leash immediately- which isn't truly fair to the vision.

I predict that Ruskell will get a two year extension. In that two years he needs to complete his rebuilding of the roster, which needs to include the QB of the future, as well as consistency on the line. It also will need to include a safety who can evolve into a leader to replace Grant. At LB they are set. D-line they could use one more DT who can help Mebane- I'm not sold on Cole or Red "inactive" Bryant.

Haters- control your anger on Ruskell. He's actually not doing a terrible job. If you want to see a terrible job- see St. Louis, Tampa, Cleveland. Those teams cannot get out of their own way.

With Ruskell as GM, we won't end up quite there. But lets face it, this team is rebuilding. The offensive line of greatness has moved on. Retired. Sure, we lost Hutch, but that is water under the bridge.

Holmgren with a second chance at GM would be fantastic. We know coaches often turn it around on their second opportunity so why not GMs. A Holmgren, Gruden combo would be tough to argue with. We know Holmgren is itching to come back to the NFL and Gruden always talks about how he is studying all the different offenses so he's likely itching too.

I love the selective memories where you pull out all of the worst players Ruskell made a move on using your hindsightometer and selectively forget his good work like Jurevicius, Fisher, and Darby who completed the 2005 team that went to the Superbowl (they wouldn't have gone without those three players). Also, not mentioned were Hill, Sims, Tatupu, Herring, Wilson, Forsett, Butler, Curry, Unger, and Carlson from the draft or Peterson, Hawthorne, Cole, Redding, and Mare to name a few not mentioned free agents who were pretty good pickups for the Seahawks. Most of the good players that did get mentioned were downplayed (like T.J. and Burly) to make it seem as if they were only marginal acquisitions. Also not mentioned was Ruskells making a aggressive move on Kris Dielman from San Deigo and other free agent attempts where he couldn't entice the player to come to Seattle. He ignored the offensive line? The evidence says different.

One can selectively paint Ruskell as he wishes but overall and given the position he drafted from, he has done as well or better than most of the GM's in the league when you look at the whole picture. His last draft where he was finally out from under Holmgren's influfence got him an "A" grade around the league including from almost everyone here. Everyone was totally estatic about getting Denver's first pick but now that it looks as if Denver might be good, Ruskell's taking a rap on that one too although every analyst said Denver would be one of the worst teams before the season started including most Seahawk Addicts who were gleefully talking top 5 pick again at the time. When it looks as if it might not work out that way, all of a sudden everyone forgets that they were firmly behind that move. Ruskell can't forget things like that because the buck stops at his desk but he's not worried about the criticism only how to get the team back on track.

How quickly we forget when adversity arises. Except for his first draft when he had little time to prepare, every player from every draft made the team or practice squad except for Courtney Greene this year. Find another GM who can make that boast.

Ruskell understands that when times are good, Mora will get the praise but when times are bad, he'll get the blame and that's a GM's lot in life. If you think times are bad now, gut this team, get a new GM with new coaches and see how long until we have a team again with this kind of foundation of young talent, experienced backups, and veteran leadership to work with. Great teams aren't built overnight and Mora has only had one training camp and 6 games to get his team on the road to success. Holmgren took 6 years to get it going. We can at least give Ruskell and his chosen coach Mora a couple of years to show us their vision works.

Some of us questioned that Mora would be able to come in and make the Seahawks a contender in his first year without a few personnel changes and/or tuneups to his new defensive and offensive systems. I thought it would take two years to rearrange the personnel, get everyone totally familiar with the new schemes, and get the whole organization running smoothly. Without even considering all the injuries, Mora already had a tough job ahead. With injuries to rival last year when Holmgren only won 4 games, I feel confident that Allen will give Ruskell and Mora more time to right the ship before embarking on a major overhaul that would probably give us another 5 years of waiting for the team to stabilize and gel into a contender again under a new regime.

I think I'd rather take a chance that Mora can get it fixed if given a little time and patience and be a contender again in another year than wait another half a decade with a totally new set of players, coaches, and administrators. Allen will see it that way too.

Holmgren's Drafts..
The following is a complete (I believe) list of the players drafted by MH between 1999-2004 inclusive. Notice all the HOF players, the household names, even the adequate journeymen. Oh can't find em, eh? well, thats because Holmgren was a waste of space as a GM and I can only sincerely hope that somebody in our division taps him to perform those duties. It should guarantee us several years of somewhere other than last in divisional finishes.

------
Lamar King
Brock Huard
Karsten Bailey
Antonio Cochran
Floyd Wedderburn
Charlie Rogers
Steve Johnson
----
Shaun Alexander
Chris McIntosh
Ike Charlton
Darrell Jackson
Marcus Bell
Isaiah Kacyvenski
James Williams
Tim Watson
John Hilliard
------
Koren Robinson
Steve Hutchinson
Ken Lucas
Heath Evans
Orlando Huff
Curtis Fuller
Floyd Womack
Alex Bannister
Josh Booty
Harold Blackmon
Dennis Norman
Kris Kocurek
-------
Jerramy Stevens
Maurice Morris
Anton Palepoi
Kris Richard
Terreal Bierria
Rocky Bernard
Ryan Hannam
Matt Hill
Craig Jarrett
Jeff Kelly
-------
Marcus Trufant
Ken Hamlin
Wayne Hunter
Seneca Wallace
Solomon Bates
Chris Davis
Rashad Moore
Josh Brown
Taco Wallace
-----
Marcus Tubbs
Michael Boulware
Sean Locklear
Niko Koutouvides
D. J. Hackett
Craig Terrill
Donnie Jones

Trufant,Hutch,Alexander and by the way did you forget we went to the superbowl in 2005.The drafts are not everything and Holmy was not a great GM he was a great coach.We have went down hill from 2005 on We need new blood at GM.We are a step behind the rest of the NFL we are way to focused on Defense A great offense is needed also "balance".

You talk of ruskell drafting new players. That is where you have gone wrong. He needs to go so that we have a clear direction. Hawks need to pull a Mariners and get someone with true vision and a plan, not someone that patches things together with old, overrated players

I have no confidence in Ruskell as a GM. While we could debate whether his draft picks and free agent signings are good or bad overall, I don't see any vision. Example - he admits that he doesn't think OL drafted early provide enough value, and as a result allows the OL to become one of the weakest units on the team. Then, he hires a coach and OC who plan to install a power running game. Interestingly enough, in 5 drafts he has only taken 1 running back, a 7th rounder. To me, that doesn't add up.

I don't want to dig up or revisit the loss of our former future-hall-of-fame guard in his prime. I admit, the poision pill was unprecedented, but why did he even play that game? The league is full of very smart, cunning, shrewd, and highly-competitive GMs. Why expose him and risk it? He got too fancy for his own good.

For those of you saying that this is finally his team to run, that isn't true. He has been the GM for 5 years. If he is incapable of working with a coach who is not a yes-man, or "his own" than I question whether or not he is cut out for his job. We all have to work with people who see things differently than we do. He has been building the roster for 5 years and it is a shell of what it was before. The young, mid and late-round draft picks are not developing into solid starters (with a few exceptions), there is not enough competition within the position groups, and he has drafted exactly 1 pro-bowl player in Tatupu... in 5 years! I think Curry will join him, but my wife could have made that pick and she is a casual football observer.

Finally, this team is not winning now, and is not set up very well for future success. There are still gaping holes in the roster that in my mind, will have to filled by players not currently on the roster. Ruskell has been building a roster for 5 years and he has, in my opinion, done a poor job. It has taken 5 years to build a foundation for a good defense (which still struggles). Is it going to take 5 more to build a foundation for the offense?

I am a season ticket holder and have been since 1999, Holmgren's first year here. Holmgren obviously had great coaching vision. He knew exactly what he wanted his offense to look like. On defense, he just wanted to get as much "talent" as he could, and have someone else coach it.

How did it work out?

It took several years for the offense to become decent. I think at the end of 2002 it looked good, and it stayed good until 2007. A good five-plus year run. by the time the offense stopped being good, they had a passing game but no run game. The defense was mediocre during this time period. Never becoming a top ten defense.

Holmgen admitted during the 2002 season that, "we went young on offense and veteran on defense". He said that maybe he should have done it the other way around. It took quite some time for that offense to jell. Once it did, the results were very good. The offense got the team to the Superbowl. The defense was good enough to allow that.

Ruskell inherited an over-the-hill in the makings offense and that same, mediocre defense. Prior to Ruskell getting here the defense had more convicts than pro bowlers. Seriously- Anton Palepoi in the second round? To quote Bob Rondeau, "Are you kidding me?" Terrible selection. Terreal "my name sounds like a disease and now I'm killing people" Bierria. That guy started for Seattle! Anyone remember 2004 Mike Martz dancing on our sideline? I was at that game too!

Vision is there. Ruskell mailed out a letter to all season ticket holders upon his arrival to illustrate his vision. He discussed character players. Guess what? Those character players he selected paid immediate dividends, bringing that team to the superbowl.

Still they have gone for character players who fit the system Seattle runs. Problem is- the system has changed a bit. So therefore the holes are being exposed. Throw in injuries- they happen to every team. But some teams take more than others.

Seahawks players are not on the police blotter so much anymore. SEahawks games are well attended. WE can even watch them on TV!

Seahawks give back to the community and are respected throughout the NFL- they even almost played a game in China!

The Hawks are building a foundation on offense. They have Carlson, Unger, Deon Butler could be part of that. Locklear, Willis, Sims...at least one of those guys will be part of it.

I believe more than ever that the vision is in place. But vision still takes hits with injuries. Besides- one more draft with a high pick wouldn't be the worst thing ever to add even more talent to the new foundation.

Only Locklear, Craig Terrill and Donnie Jones remain on NFL rosters. He cut Donnie Jones, who is now a very good NFL punter.

Some of these guys drafted were just terrible. Rashad "Booger" Moore. Wayne Hunter. Did he ever play? At least Kelly Jennings gets after it. The kid plays hard and is trying to get better and gets up after getting knocked down.

I am totally on the fence on this one. I hate seeing too much turnover on a team, and firing Ruskell would mean hiring someone with a different vision, perhaps prolonging the team's struggles during the rebuild process. However, I am starting to sour on Ruskell too. His first draft looked like genius, but as his tenure here has unfolded he looks pretty average. Five years of 1st round picks haven't delivered a single star player. His ability to draft well in the later rounds has brought a lot of average players, but has made this an average team. Think about it, if the refs don't completely screw the pooch in the Bears game, the Hawks are 3-3... average. Look a little deeper though, and I think every fan agrees the O line needs a serious infusion of talent, and I'm not sure TR is the guy I want in charge of that. Unger aside, he has shown pretty poor ability to get good linemen, in the draft OR in free agency.
In my mind, how this team finishes a lost season will go a long way in telling whether Ruskell (and Mora) should return. If they rally and play hard, never giving up and pull out at least 7 or 8 wins then they should be given the chance to see things through. Go into a tailspin of poor attitudes, lackluster play, just general giving up.... it will be time to clean house before the ship completely sinks.

Papahawk - OK, Ruskell does have vision with regard to the types of players he wants. I will agree 100% with that. The vision I am speaking of is building a roster and making all the different pieces work. Perhaps instead of "vision" I should have said "plan." I think he is spinning his wheels with regard to building a roster and have no confidence in his ability to put the pieces together. It seems like when he fixes one leak, two new ones appear.

TJ, it certainly does appear he is fixing leaks and creating others, no doubt. How else would you go about it though? Isn't it the role of the GM to fix leaks? Creating a perfect roster is not possible. I can remember a Patriots team that used a wide receiver to play defensive back. That team won the Superbowl. Was that an idea roster? No.

Great teams overcome adversity. That Patriots team did despite a roster problem.

I'm sure that all plans are great. But when your plan gets busted up by career ending injuries to players who you do not expect to experience them...those plans are ruined. The team culture overcomes the shortcomings- unless they are ridiculous amounts of injuries.

Hang in there on this season. While I do not think this is a championship caliber team, I do think it can provide us Hawks fans with many good times. I have no doubt this team will finish the season strong and leave us longing for 2010. HOpefully they can make the playoffs this year, but I won't be holding my breath.

@Jaothcg

You say Holmgren was a waste of space as a GM and yet..the list you provided is full of names that led this franchise to the first and only Superbowl appearance. Therefore, I think your a waste of space as a 'fan' and should STFU.

Holmgren and Gruden?

I'm not sure why people think Gruden's a great coach. He had a couple of 8 - 8 seasons with the Raiders before posting a 12 - 4 season which catapulted him into the job at Tampa Bay where he took Tony Dungy's hand crafted team to the Super Bowl that first season before he could screw it up and then faded into the sunset leading a steadily declining team (with the exception of one 11 - 5 season) for 7 years until he was fired.

Sure he can make the Chucky face and give players the best "evil eye" I've ever seen but how does being able to do great facial contortions qualify him to be a great coach? Teaming him up with Holmgren who was a failure as GM seems a good way to set the franchise on another 5 or 6 year path to get back to being a contending team again. They will have to turn over players to acquire ones that can run Holmgren's offense and then give them the 3 years it takes to master his system since Holmgren doesn't believe in adapting his offense to the players skills. The defense will once again be turned over to someone who will be the only one who cares about it. Another Marshall?

Will Holmgren call in the plays to Gruden who will relay them to the puppet OC to be sent in to the QB? Meanwhile the DC will be out on a limb with no draft help to improve his squad. I'd rather give Mora the rest of this season, another draft and free agency period now that they've seen and evaluated everyone while playing in their system to adjust personnel and fill holes. Then see what developes in 2010 when hopefully lightning won't strike thrice as far as injuries go before I'd want to gut the team, fire the GM and coaching staff and start over again from the ground up like we did in 1999 when Holmgren arrived.

If we had to do a total overhaul, I guess Holmgren/Gruden would be as good as any to start with but as I said, that's a half a decade plan just waiting to unfurl. I'd rather see us getting back into contention next season.

What Ruskell has done is brought in great character guys with no mean streak. I am also a long time season ticket holder; however, I have grown tired of a team lacking leadership and grit. Winning on the road requires both and we wonder why we continually struggle away from Qwest. We have a SOFT team. When we lost players like Gray, Tobeck and Hutch, we lost the toughness on the line and serious leadership. Our D has never been dominate nor will it ever until Coach Mora starts reinforcing toughness instead of his rosey, things will be ok, the sun is always shining attitude. Lay into your players, question their heart and see how they respond. That will define the true nature of this team's character. This season is over, and I for did not think that would happen in October. Dallas, Minnesota, Arizona and Green Bay will all take us to the woodshed. Ruskell must go! I would rather take 2-3 years of rebuilding to re-ignite the toughness and then enjoy another 5 year division run.

groundchuck,

I deleted your obscene post. Please use decent language and you can say anything you want as long as it's not a personal insult directed at another Addict. Stick to the topic and let's talk football.

I don't care what you want to say about Ruskell or my admiration for the man either as long as you keep it clean and not personal.

If you want to swear and use cuss words, wait for the X-Rated rant post and let your potty mouth take over.

BillT

Not trying to pick a fight with anyone here, but can we be a little more fair when comparing Holmy to Ruskell? Holmy was far from a "waste of space" as GM, I see quite a few good players on that list of draft picks. Made a few good trades as I recall too.

and the character thing.... are we giving a pass to Tatupu and Hill? just wondering...

Ya, there are only 3 players left in the NFL from Holmy's last draft class, but only 4 from Ruskell's 1st.... and Spencer and Willis don't exactly have huge fan bases, while Hill still hasn't lived up to his potential. What about David Greene and Jeb Huckeba? Let's compare apples to apples, not 1st rounder Kelly Jennings to 6th rounder Rashad Moore... the expectations are a LITTLE different.

groundchuck,

Want to try playing nice again? Can't you show some restraint like the other posters do on the site?

Ruskell only had one month to prepare for his first draft class. Not much time to put together a scouting team, prepare a draft board, talk with your coaching staff about where the holes are, etc. To be fair, Holmgren never had to orchestrate a draft with such little notice. I give Ruskell a mulligan on his first draft for that reason.

Holmgren didn't do so well in the first round all the time either. Lamar King? If we're going to bash Ruskell for acquiring Deion Branch for a first round pick, Holmgren should get the same treatment for drafting Marcus Tubbs who was in exactly the same situation as Branch. Good players who couldn't stay healthy. Great when they played which was almost never after the first year. No substantial difference between Branch and Tubbs except everyone forgave Tubbs saying he couldn't help being injured but blasted Branch for being a bust for the exact same reason. Talk about fair.

By the way, I'm not trying to pick a fight either, just giving my take on it as are you guys.

BillT,

didn't Mora inherit a team in Atlanta that was custom-built by Dan Reeves? Is he REALLY that much better than Gruden?

and was Holmgren really a FAILURE as GM? Did he have a losing record? Did he inherit a SB-calibre team, or have to build his team from the ground up after an utterly disasterous ownership ran it into the ground? Come on man, be fair

We sure went from a few missing pieces to Rebuilding fast.And we are talking draft ahhhhhh.

Ya, Ruskell was handicapped by the short timing, but he wasn't exactly going in blind either... he WAS an assistant GM who did a fair amount of scouting.

All I'm saying is Holmgren wasn't as bad as people make it sound, and Ruskell doesn't quite have the Midas touch I thought he did after scoring on Hill and Tatupu.

In the end, all I care about is seeing the Hawks get back on track. This really really sucks

It's all in how you perceive the situation. If you feel that Ruskell hasn't been doing a great job from the very get go then you might think this has been inevitable.

If you think Ruskell is doing a good job as GM then obviously this is gonna seem fast.

personally, if the man (Ruskell) doesn't Draft players who can contribute because he doesn't feel the need to draft for necessity, then he is letting his own draft policies sink this ship.

If we are going to rebuild, why not do it the right way. Fire the GM and start fresh with a new philosophy.

Hawkfaninoklahoma,

When you say that no one would be able to run with the line we have, Ruskell gets credit for the line that is currently assembled so yes that's a strike against Ruskell.

Julius Jones was demoted in Dallas, Keyshawn called him a training table player because he was on the training table more than on the practice field when he was in Dallas.

BillT,

I have to disagree with you on the Branch vs Tubbs deal. Tubbs didn't come in here getting paid #1 money. Branch was traded to Seattle for a #1 and was given a contract equivalent to a #1 receiver. This after never posting a 1000 yard season. Yes he was super bowl mvp, but so was Larry Brown.

Looking at players who have had significant playing time for the Seahawks or are showing good potential as a rookie this year.

Holmgren in 6 drafts:

Shaun Alexander
Darrell Jackson
Koren Robinson
Steve Hutchinson
Ken Lucas
Floyd Womack
Jerramy Stevens
Maurice Morris
Rocky Bernard
Marcus Trufant
Ken Hamlin
Seneca Wallace
Sean Locklear
Michael Boulware
Craig Terrill

Tim Ruskell in 5 drafts:

Chris Spencer
Lofa Tatupu
Leroy Hill
Ray Willis
Darryl Tapp
Rob Sims
Josh Wilson
Brandon Mebane
Mansfield Wrotto
Will Herring
Steve Vallos
Lawrence Jackson
John Carlson
Red Bryant
Owen Schmitt
Aaron Curry
Max Unger
Deon Butler
Nick Reed
Justin Forsett

There were some bit players for both GM's in the mix left out but these are the players who got playing time on a regular basis. I included Ken Hamlin and Michael Boulware for Holmgren even though both were traded away after only playing for the Seahawks for a couple of years. Kelly Jennings, Darryl Tapp, Mansfield Wrotto, Owen Schmitt, and Red Bryant are still learning but all are still playing on a regular basis. Koren Robinson and Jerramy Stevens were both failures ultimately because of character issues. Of course Leroy Hill and Lofa Tatupu had character problems too but neither has had a second incident while Stevens and Robinson had several and both were prone to dropping the ball.

Hawkfaninoklahoma,

Tubbs got paid first round draft money which was a lot of money to pay a rookie who had never performed in the NFL yet. Ultimately, he never earned his money any more than Branch did. Both were stymied because of injury. Both might have had great careers here in Seattle but for those injuries. Unfortunatley, we'll never know but to label one a bust and give one a free pass is not right. Both played well when they came to Seattle. Both got injured and were unable to play for a couple of seasons. Branch has at least made it back to the playing field however it appears as if the injury has taken the edge off his speed and agility somewhat. I don't see the same player as I did before the injury.

There are more similarities than differences between the two players and how their careers went at Seattle irrespective of how and why they were acquired in my humble opinion.

Ya know, it's funny how, when things go as pear shaped as this season has (even though we're only a couple cracked ribs from being 4-2)folks come out of the woodwork with "I told you so's" and "as I've been saying all along's" etc...If you look at Ruskell's decisions in context, rather than with hindsight, he's done a very good job. It's just that some "good ideas" didn't turn out as well as they ought to have, such as spending a #1 draft pick on a super bowl receiver who had no history of injury...until he got here...(but when he's on the field, he's done some amazing things) Using a !st round draft pick on the highest ranked center in the draft...(even though he A] had only two months to prepare, and B] Had been looking at 5 players in that first round, only to have those players go like dominos in the five picks before his) Snagging the RT from a team that had arguably the best line in football the year before...Signing a guard who was only one season removed from back to back pro bowls...Signing a pro bowl type lb, who was excellent the year before we signed him, hurt the year he was with us, then returned to form the next couple years...You can't really fault the man for most of what he's done...he's just had appallingly bad luck...if you're gonna call him out, call him out for being unlucky. Napoleon once said "I'd rather have a general who is lucky than one who is good."It seems we have a GM who is good, but unlucky...
Bill and Papa, thanks for trying mightily to raise the general level of sanity and intelligence around here...there ARE those of us who appreciate it

The difference being, Holmgren's bunch (don't forget he also traded for the best QB this franchise has ever had) actually went to the Superbowl, here as Ruskell's bunch have not.

Giving Ruskell 5 more years, like our designated Ruskell lover is suggesting would mean Ruskell would get 10 years to accomplish something when all other teams cut ties with loser GMs in less than 5yrs.

No way will that fly in any industry let alone a cut throat industry like the NFL. Ruskell is a loser and needs to be fired after this season.

Upon closer look at the list there, I see how you conveniently left out pro bowlers Josh Brown and Alex Bannister. Important contributors like DJ Hackett, Niko Koutouvides and Isaiah Kacyvenski from Holmy's list.

Talk about rose colored glasses, that is why readers of this blog call you all those unflattering names.

Let's start with some terminology. Rebuilding means recognizing that you have a bad team, tearing it down as much as is logistically possible, and adding a large infusion of young players, recognizing that you may continue to be bad for another year or two. Ruskell has never made a move that suggested he was thinking of doing this. Contrary to mythology, Ruskell has spent most of his high draft picks on positions that conventional wisdom said were immediate needs. He's added pricy veteran free agents to fill other starting roles almost every offseason. He has re-signed prominent Seahawks to long-term contracts. Ruskell has been building and refining, not rebuilding.

My guess is that he thinks he can tinker with the o-line in free agency once again and get it to respectability, assuming they finally get some good luck with injuries. I further think he will look seriously at RB, the position he's messed up the most, and possibly QB in the next draft. And cross his fingers on the injury front.

Like someone said earlier look at what Pittsburgh has done after the super bowl and look at us,only one man is in charge.Ruskell and his hand picked coaches will be playing for there jobs the rest of the year,as they should be.We will get there best effort we will see just how good they are.It is what it is they lose out they should be gone,they pick it up and take an injured team to a RESPECTABLE record they should get afew more years.

Thank you for saying what we all know is true. BillT sucks.

This team is at a crossroads, it is in Paul Allen's best interest at this time to look elsewhere for GM with a winning formula for picking talent.

Holmgren may not be that guy but hell at this point something has to be done. Fire Ruskell.

Has anyone ever wondered what would have been if we had drafted Steven Jackson instead of Marcus Tubbs? I was beside myself that day when we let Jackson slide by us. It had nothing to do with not liking Alexander, it was about value and Jackson had slide further than any player ever should. The Rams had Faulk at the time, but they went ahead and took Jackson. I'd certainly rather have Jackson than Tubbs right now. Hindsight is 20-20.

I think Ruskell is a pretty good judge of defensive talent. Perhaps I'm alone on this, but I'm pretty happy with the front seven on defense and we could have a decent secondary with a healthy Trufant and a safety and corner next year.
On the offense side, Ruskell's made some good picks, but as mentioned, he doesn't seem to value offensive linemen as much as necessary. If I were Paul Allen, I would take the next month or two to find someone who specializes in offensive talent, especially linemen, and make sure I got a couple solid linemen in next year's draft.

MMF- Pittsburgh missed the playoffs the year after the Superbowl, the Seahawks did not.

Who did the Steelers bring in who made an immediate impact which allowed them to get back to the Superbowl?

Well, they didn't resign Faneca. They didn't sign a big name WR or a big name RB. They drafted Lamarr Woodley, let Clark Haggans and Joey Porter go, kept Polamalu around and allowed Harrison to develop. They kept their NT, Casey Hampton, kept Max Starks and their young TE, Heath Miller...

Really, the Steelers just kept on their path, stayed true to themselves:

Build through the draft and develop existing talent. If we start over now, we throw away the momentum that we have!

Look at the defense- these guys are developing!

Tapp and Jackson, Curry, Josh Wilson, Mebane. This group is young! The biggest difference is health. Tatupu, Hill and Trufant- three centerpiece defensive figures are all hurt!

On offense, hurt!

These same injuries would cripple other teams too!

Holmgren should receive credit for Hasselbeck. that is Ruskell's next charge. Who do you want acquiring the next QB of the Seahawks?

I have yet to see them play top notch take the ball away Defense against good to average teams.I agree they should be great. Curry is a beast the rest are injured way to much,they should be a shut down Defense but they are not,every one including me thought they would be last year also.

You're right, I missed Josh Brown (I've been trying to forget about him anyway) but Alex Bannister was Holmgren's Jordan Kent (whom I didn't mention either). Couldn't make him into a decent receiver but he became a decent headhunter just like Kent. Hackett couldn't stay healthy and failed miserably when Ruskell correctly got rid of him. Niko Koutouvides was so good they had to draft Lofa Tatupu to get a decent middle linebacker. Isaiah Kacyvenski was also a mediocre linebacker who failed after leaving Seattle and was replaced because he was too slow.

Oh, and Brownhawk, you suck too bucko. We don't see much of you around here but looks like you like to sling the mud instead of just discussing the topic at hand huh? Try and keep the personal stuff out of it ok? Where did I get personal with any of you guys? Opinions are great, personal insults aren't.

You say - Niko Koutouvides was so good they had to draft Lofa Tatupu

These types of tit for tat arguments can be made for Ruskell as well.

Why did we draft undersized DBs as our top pick for two consecutive drafts and yet still have to sign Holmy's original draft pick Lucas in the end? How many DE and DT did we draft in addition to burning big bucks on Kerney, Cole and Redding? How much money and draft picks did the Hawks burn through at the WR position and yet we still had to sign Housh. The list goes on and on..

The wheel has fallen off of this team during his watch. Ruskell had 5 drafts to prepare for the key components of this team aging and has failed to do so. We are witnessing the aftereffects of that failure the past two seasons. The crumbling is not done either, think about #8's contract which is up after this season.

Now we will be relying on Ruskell to handle to monumental task of drafting and developing a franchise QB (the toughest position on a NFL team IMO) when he couldn't even solve a much easier position like CB in three drafts.

Ruskell is a loser GM, he may have done quite well during his previous stops but as the man in control of my favorite team, he has been a shortsighted failure. His contract should not be renewed after the season.

You forever changed the way the world functions with the co-founding of Microsoft. You are a pioneer, a genius and a good business man. Because of this, I know you'll do the right thing when it comes to returning our Hawks to the winning team they once were.

Please listen to the majority of the Seahawk fanbase who are begging you to get rid of Tim Ruskell. Successful GM's know how to maintain a winning tradition each year. You only need to look as far as Pittsburgh's record versus ours since SB XL. Success starts at the top and you've given this guy 5 years to prove he can't handle the job.

The loudest crowd in the NFL deserves better. Please kick his ass to the curb ASAP.

Lucas was signed because Trufant was injured. How many years in a row did we have a different MLB under Holmgren before Ruskell came in and got Tatupu aboard? As you said, the list goes on.

Ruskell inherited a team where the core fell apart just after he came aboard. Forget just Hutch. Tobeck, Gray, Alexander, DJack, Lucas, Jurevicius, DD Lewis, Strong, Engram, and Stevens were all gone within two years. On the defensive line, Darby, Bernard, Fisher, and Wistrom all gone. Our 2006 linebackers, Bently, Cooper, Kouts, and Kacyvenski all gone. A lot of talent in that core and other players that had to be replaced in just a couple of years. Now add in Hasselbeck and Walter Jones and you've got a huge turnover of your core players as well as backups and rotational players. Some of it due to age and injury and some due to not enough talent but it all had to be done and Ruskell can only get maybe 4 players a year through the draft that can come in and replace starters within a couple of years. I'd love to see some of your recommended hot shot GM's handle that situation any better. If Ruskell hit on the first 4 players in all 5 drafts, that's 19 players (no first for Branch). I just listed 19 players that were turned over and I didn't catch them all. No GM is going to hit 19 out of 19 players so there are bound to still be holes to fix.

It may interest you to know this is Ruskell's first GM job so he has no previous stops. He's learning and hasn't been making the same mistakes over and over as far as I can see. This is his first chance to apply his character filter and I'm pleased with not only the way his character guys give 100% effort but they have good team chemistry and are team players to the core. If Ruskell hadn't had all the injuries occur to his team the last two years, you would all be singing his praises. Because he's had some bad luck, you all want a scrapegoat and have decided he's it.

I wonder how you will all feel if he is fired and goes to another team and makes them a powerhouse and wins a Super Bowl while we're mired in another 5 or 6 year project to rebuild our team for yet another new regime.

Put me down as someone in the fan-base that absolutely does not favor dumping Ruskell (for at least another 3-4 years) for a number of reason,
1) He has built this team mostly through the draft with very very few wasted picks.
2) HIS team (including the coach HE hired) have had 6 (count em) 6 regular season games to make things work. Holmgren had 5 seasons before he really started clicking.

Stop looking at last weeks results and THINK about the future..

When I stated his "previous stops" I meant his previous positions. I am aware that this is his first GM job.

By all accounts, Ruskell and Holmgren were at odds with each other for the 4 years they worked together. Holmgren casts a long shadow even over the GM he works for so you have to wonder how much of every draft was Ruskell and how much was Holmgren. The same applies to free agents. Now that Ruskell is finally undisputedly in charge AND has his handpicked head coach and his approved coaching staff etc. he has a chance to really put the product he wanted on the field.

So far we haven't seen it because of a tremendous number of injuries.

The closest we came to seeing it was on opening day when we saw the team minus our pro bowl left tackle and pro bowl cornerback. That's still a big hole in just those two very important players who protect your QB and defend your backfield. How good would this team be with all the components they counted on healthy and playing? Just ask yourself that before you decide the whole organization is a dismal failure.

How many games do we have to lose Bill?If Detroit beats us at home will you consider a new GM.It could happen and I agree our team did give up at the colts and again at home last week .

Holmy had an eye for brilliant talent in Tru, Hutch, Alexander and Hasselbeck, but there's 50 guys on the roster that need to contribute or you are going to suck like 4-12.

Of the players that stuck from the Holmgren-as-GM years, there are only a few (admittedly brilliant) on today's roster. This is the fundamental problem as the veteran leadership we all crave comes from the pool of guys who have been in the league 5 years or more. Which is an awfully thin pool left over from the Holmgren era. And, much as it pains me to toe anyone's party line, Bill is right about TR taking over a team that was falling apart - the 2005 defense was a bunch of nobodies, hasbeens and never weres plus Tatupu, Hill, Tubbs and Trufant (who was injured and out for the entire playoff run) while the offense was 300 years old or really close to it except for Hass, Hutch, Walt and Locklear.

And, for all you haters out there, Hutch wanted to be paid more than Walter Jones. And our MVP running back was up for a new contract. And our defense had 3 good players in Tru (injured, remember?), Hill and Tatupu plus career-ending injuries to Tubbs plus a lot of washed up former stars or outright scrubs. What was he supposed to do? Pay Hutch more than Walter and cut Shaun after an MVP season? Hindsight says that would have been the exact right move, but what top tier free agent or draft pick would ever want to come here if that was how a Hall of Fame Left Tackle and MVP Running Back get treated? So instead he went and got Burley and JP that year with the money that would have gone to Hutch, one a quality deep threat with gamebreaking potential every time he touches the ball and an All Pro linebacker that would have easily stopped Willie Parker off right tackle for a 2 yard gain instead of allowing him to ramble for a TD, and had the speed and strength to drop Big Ben while he was running for his life on 3rd and 28 with Hines Ward open at the 2 yard line. Bad as the officiating was in SB XL, they didn't need help from the officials to make those plays...so Ruskell had to find a way to plug the other gaping holes in the roster besides Hutch. And given that Branch never had an injury and had a more productive career than 80% of ALL first round draft choices, that was a good trade. Remember Nate Odomes? Pro Bowl DB acquired from Buffalo that never saw a game in a Seahawk uniform because of injuries. Branch and Tubbs were not busts, they were casualties of a very violent profession. Jerramy Stevens and David Greene were busts. There's a BIG difference, people.

Like it or not, Ruskell's picks have been better as far as who is a contributor, who has upside and who is still in uniform, and most players take a couple years or longer to develop. Anyone remember how long Hasselbeck had been in the league before he got here and then how many years it took him as a starter to get good? Measure a GM by how many of his acquisitions stick and continue to develop and contribute. The pool of legitimate players and solid prospects with immediate upside brought in by Ruskell is better and more numerous than Holmgren's. Period. And they haven't had as long a time to develop as Holmgren's guys.

And how about taking an entire roster built to run one system on both offense and defense (that went 4 and EFFING 12!!!!!!!!) and making it fit into a completely different system on both offense and defense with completely different terminology? And 6 games into the season you're freaking out? A couple of split seconds the other way and we're 4-2, so step up to the KoolAid bar all you chicken littles, there will be much to shout about as the players pick up the system and come back from their (minor) injuries.

All that said, how come we got outplayed on all sides of the ball by the EFFING EFFTARDS ON OUR HOME FIELD??? An absolutely pathetic effort turned in by everyone, including the 12th man. Where was the intensity? The focus? Did all the air let out from the previous week's win? What kind of bunch of rank-assed amateurs are we here? Isn't this one of top 3 winnningest franchises in this decade, second only to the vaunted Patriots and Colts?

This team isn't as bad as last Sunday showed, nor is it as good as the previous Sunday. Yet.

It's only 4 losses. The season is still 16 games long and it matters most who plays best in the final 10 games anyway.

When you guys start acting like adults and STOP with the sucking and swallowing language and vulgar references that constitute a personal attack on me, I'll allow your comments no matter how much opposed to my view they are. That goes for any form of personal attack on any of our Addict members. Go back an look through this thread at all the comments that were opposed to my view that are ALL there because there were no personal attacks or vulgarity in them. Only yours were deleted and only because of the aforementioned content. GROW UP!

You'll notice that I NEVER made any of this personal in my responses to your gang MJensen so why don't you and your buddies grow up and discuss this like adults and keep the personal stuff out. If you do, you can say whatever you want about what Ruskell does or what Mora does or what Holmgren does but not about what BillT or any other Addict does in any derrogatory manner.

Do you get it yet or do we have to keep playing this game where ultimately, you'll lose because I have delete authority and well....... you don't. I really don't want to have to keep doing this when hundreds of posters can be civil about their writings and only a handfull can't control themselves. Be hot, be angry, spout all kinds of nonsense, just don't make it personal or vlugar. Period.

MMF,

So far this season, we've lost games to some of the top teams in the NFL playing mostly their first stringers against our second and third string players in a lot of important positions. Against the the two teams we've played who are not top echlon teams, we won and won big. I have no reason to suspect that Seattle won't crush Detroit at home. To answer your question, if Seattle isn't further decimated by injury and get their important players back healthy, yes I would be upset if Seattle lost to Detroit at home but I'm not sure that would make me want to completely blow up the organization as some here persist in suggesting.

A new GM means a new head coach unless you want to run the risk of having another situation where you bring in a GM and force him to work with a coach not of his choice. For example, I doubt that a Holmgren/Mora team would work out. I think it's way to early to call this a failure when Ruskell has finally got the pieces in place he wanted not what he inherited. If, after next years draft and free agency period, the team hasn't improved next season, then I think you've given them at least a chance and something should be done. In all fairness, when everyone says Ruskell had 5 years, I ask the question did he? He and Holmgren were obviously battling over draft choices and player personnel and who knows what else. That can't be a good environment to build a team under. At least give Ruskell and Mora a couple of years or 40% of the time you gave to Holmgren and Holmgren to right the ship.

Otherwise, if we're going to be so trigger happy, how about the next GM/head coach? If they don't win by midseason of their first year, do we give them the boot and try again? Most NFL franchises have to grow together for at least a year or two before they become a cohesive unit. Shouldn't we give the Ruskell/Mora combination at least that much time to see if it'll work?

I know everyone's hurting over the Cards game. I was there and am as sick as anyone about it. However, what I saw was that we are an offensive line away and maybe just a left tackle from being a much improved team. Our defense played great in the Arizona game. Consider this. Arizona made one long drive against us at the first of the game and scored. Then they pulled what amounted to an onside kick where their kicker kicked a high kick to around the 30 yard line and one of their tall receiver types got under the ball and jump balled the football and caught us by surprise. With a short field they scored again. Now Seattle was down by two scores and hadn't touched the football yet. Here's the part I want you to consider. Forget stats, our defense only allowed a field goal from Arizona until a couple of minutes were left in the third quarter or for 3/4 of the game from that point on. Our offense had numerous drives and rarely crossed midfield. Hass was persecuted mercilessly by their defensive line and particularly their defensive end working over our left tackle Kyle Williams. With a decent offensive line and left tackle, we would have moved the football and I'm confident that Hass would have got the team moving. It didn't happen, game over. Rather than throw away what we've built so far, I just want to fix what's wrong and move on. I think we all know it's the offensive line and I'm sure that's not lost on Ruskell/Mora either.

Now how many GM's would game plan for five left tackles to be available for his team for a given season? That's what some of you are asking of Ruskell. He had Walter Jones at the first of the season who was supposed to be maybe reaqdy for the first game and Locklear in reserve. He acquired Frye as insurance and before you know it, Frye's the starter. He gets placed on injured reserve and so you bring in your practice squad 4th LT who promptly gets banged up too and so you have to sign the only guy available in the free agent market. A guy nicknamed Sackintosh. Is anyone here seriously suggesting Ruskell could have dreamed that scenario before the season and prepared for it? That very series of events would cripple every team in the league particularly when half of the rest of the offensive line is down to second and third string players.

Continued......

Right now, the offensive line play is what's killing our team and despite starting with a decent squad, we've once again been decimated by injury. Scattergunning the GM, coach, players, owner, and other fans isn't going to make it any better. Just like the team, we fans have to pull together and gut it out. I hope the 12th man doesn't give up and not support the team as it's accostomed to when Detroit comes to town but I know the team won't give up.

I don't apologize for how I feel about my team and I'm not a fairweather fan. I loved Holmgren and supported him aggresively back when everyone wanted his head during the first years of his tenure. When he said he wanted to quit, I hated that but if that's what he wants, I said so be it. I am glad we picked Mora and think that just as Holmgren finally proved up so will Jim. My support doesn't depend on any one game or even season. I'll criticize when I see something I don't like but I'm not about to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Give it some time.

i havent commented all week, as I am still in a bit of shock over our lost to AZ, its pretty obvious some changes need to be made. i wont sit here and pretend to pin-point exactly what those changes are, as there seem to be so many to exactly know where to start. but thats not why i am writing. although, i might now always agree with billt''s opinions on all things seahawks, i will never stoop so low as to call him derogatory names. why cant people have civil debates without throwing out f-bombs at each other. save that kind of discussion for your buddies at the bar.

i think our frustration with the seahawks has boiled over to the point we are looking at anyone and anything to dispense our anger and disgust. the finger-pointing and name calling has gotten ugly and childish.

like everyone here, i am hoping that we can salvage this season, but to think that we make the playoffs might be a little naive. cheers.

ßillT

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